Addressing Challenging Behaviors: Neurodiversity Affirming Strategies for Schools

Transcript

Vanessa

Welcome to our webinar. Thank you so much, everyone, for being here. We really hope that this webinar really sparks an even bigger discussion about neurodiversity-affirming practices, and it brings about this positive change in classrooms, schools and districts across the country.  So, uh, before I get started with sort of, uh, introducing the amazing co co presenters that I have to the sides of me here, uh, I wanted to introduce myself real quick.

Uh, so I'm Vanessa Castaneda Gill. I am the CEO and co-founder of Social Cipher which builds social-emotional learning video games and curriculum for neurodiverse youth ages 10 to 15. I founded this company based on my own lived experience and challenges as a person with ADHD, as well as autism, and I got diagnosed as an adolescent.

And so with my work, and honestly, my whole mission is to empower neurodivergent students with the supports that I wish I had in my own academic journey.  All right, and then this, uh, our team at Social Cipher is really thrilled to bring you this presentation. If you want to better support your neurodivergent students with fun, inclusive, and high quality social emotional learning, you can learn more and even try our video games at SocialCipher. com.

So I'd like to introduce our wonderful co-presenters, uh, starting with the fantastic Duncan Scherer. Um, so Duncan is an accomplished, uh, K-12 education leader and Superintendent in Residence at Social Cipher. Uh, after working as a special education teacher, he pioneered a middle school program focused on student advocacy and social-emotional learning for students with exceptional learning needs.

He wanted to make an even bigger impact in school systems, which eventually led him to his most recent role as the Chief Schools Officer at Democracy Prep Public Schools, where he oversaw leadership across 18 schools in three states. At Social Cipher, Duncan now works with district administrators to implement their SEL curriculum and the innovative game Ava for neurodivergent students across the country.

And for our second speaker, uh, Dr. Lucas Harrington, uh, Lucas is a talented, uh, clinical psychologist, author, and autism specialist. He uses his, uh, uh, academic background and his lived experience as an autistic person with ADHD, and he's been able to deeply understand the families and youth that he supports because of that.

Uh, he specializes in clinical areas like emotional regulation, disruptive behavior, and school avoidance. And we are so honored to have Lucas on our team and here joining us where he has the important role of enhancing Social Cipher's SEL curriculum, and ensuring that we're engaging, impactful, and neurodiversity-affirming.

All right, so let's jump into it. Uh, we're going to start with two poll questions, uh, and then we'll head into our speakers' presentations. So I'd like to take a minute or two on the first question, uh, easy one.

What is your role in education?

Wow, okay, so we have folks from sort of all around, uh,  the sort of education space, which is super exciting. Uh, it means that we're gonna get to a whole new range of students. Um, alright, and then one more poll question,

How familiar are you with neurodiversity?

Okay, we've got mostly folks that are like,  got a lot that understand the basics.  A lot that are not fairly familiar or not familiar at all, which is great. Thanks for being here and wanting to learn more. Um, we've got some neurodivergent people themselves, which is awesome. Me too.

Okay, sweet.  

All right. Well, now we are going to go ahead, uh, and I'm going to, uh, start with asking a question to Lucas. Um, so Lucas, before we get into the neurodiversity-affirming strategies that all these lovely people, uh, joined us for, would you be able to define neurodiversity for us.  

Lucas

Yes, uh, so neurodiversity itself is not a philosophy or something that can be debated.

Neurodiversity is just a fact, you know, different brains interact with the world differently. Some people's brains find it easier to use the left hand for writing. Some people's brains find it easier to use the right hand. Even when people are like little tiny babies, the brain isn't, doesn't start out as a blank slate.

Like you put out a toy that makes noise, one baby might think that is just the coolest thing she's ever seen because her brain is reacting in a way that feels good, but then her twin brother might be scared of it, even though, you know, same age, same background and everything.  And so there's a lot of subtle variation that doesn't necessarily make that much difference in the day  to day-to-day life.

And technically that's also a part of neurodiversity. But usually when people are talking about neurodiversity, they're thinking of the neurodiversity movement or the neurodiversity paradigm,  which is saying that not only do we all experience the world differently, but it is good and natural that that's the case.

And a big part of that is saying that even brains which have been traditionally treated like they're broken and wrong,  autism or ADHD or dyslexia, those are just as valuable and deserving of respect as typical brains.    So if you have a student who's reacting differently from the others, the school experience, which is a lot of times they're responding in ways that are very difficult for everybody involved, instead of thinking, how do we make this child stop reacting wrong, how do we make them react more like the other kids, we instead start thinking, what do we need to understand about this child's brain in order to set them up for success?

And I do want to add, um, you don't even have to agree that something is good in order to act in a neurodiversity-affirming way. So, like, when I present on this topic, sometimes I show this video of a restaurant, a pop up restaurant in Japan they did, that provided a supportive workplace for people with dementia.

Um, it's called The Restaurant of Mistaken Workers, so if you look up the video, it's very sweet. And I think most people would say that dementia is fundamentally not good. That if we could cure dementia, that would be better. But the reality is, right now, we can't cure dementia. People with dementia exist, and it's important for them to stay out of place in our community.

And so the restaurant goes in assuming that people with dementia are going to have difficulty with things that people with dementia usually have difficulty with. And then they plan the restaurant around it so that customers and employees can still have a good experience.  And so acceptance doesn't have to mean that we like how the brain is responding, um, how our own brain is responding or somebody else's.

It just means we accept that it is responding in the way that it's responding in terms of how people usually respond. And it's trying to make them pretend like it's not different.  It's just like, you know, tying down left handed kids left handed in the old days didn't actually make them right handed. It just meant to support kids for having to do everything with their left hand.

Vanessa

 Great! So, uh, yeah, if  you could define what neurodiversity-affirming means, that would be awesome.  

Lucas

Yeah, so the heart of, of being neurodiversity-affirming is that idea of respecting the realities of the brain. And so instead of taking the attitude of, this person is doing things wrong, we need to get them on track, how the other people are doing it. Instead taking this perspective of, oh, you know, the current situation is not a good fit for what this person's brain needs.

And so how can we try to meet the needs of our entire community here?  And a quick note that this is a work in progress, you know, it's not like you're supposed to be able to or necessarily, it's not like you're supposed to or necessarily even able to reach a point where everyone is just kept happy forever.

What you're aiming for is an environment where people can trust that you'll help to resolve things as they come up, and that you're going to treat the disability related and other individual needs as just as legitimate and important as more common needs.  

Vanessa

This is, I think this is awesome information and I relate to this a lot because of my own sort of diagnosis and experience as a neurodivergent person.

Uh, when I got diagnosed, it was really interesting because things started changing from sort of a deficit mindset and I had all these weaknesses to sort of the other extreme, uh, where, uh, I found that everyone was talking about my autism as a superpower, um, but I still saw a lot of nuances in that, right? Like I, I still had difficulties with sensory sensitivities and time blindness. Um, can you comment on how deficits are seen and worked with through the neurodiversity-affirming approach?  

Lucas

Yeah, that's a that's a great point. You know, that's a myth. Sometimes people say oh the neurodiversity movement, you know, doesn't believe autism is a disability, or like, doesn't acknowledge difficulties, or isn't appropriate for people who do have difficulties.

And, um, the reality is, you know, I definitely have deficits. I am not denying that. Like, somebody tossed me a ball and it just bounced off my face because my reflexes are not good. Um, very, very common in autism where your highs are real high and your lows are real low in terms of some of those skills.  Um, but we, what we see a lot of times is that the autism itself is treated as a deficit.

Or people with this attitude assume, well, if something is part of autism, then it must be a weakness or a problem, just because it's different from how most people do it. But some things, like, you know, with sensory processing, it can be a double edged sword, where the sensitivity can be overwhelming, and may also bring gifts, like in music or visual art.

And then some aspects are actually sometimes just upside, if you're ready to recognize how something outside the norm can be effective. But, the real, like, measurable deficits do exist.  The issue is, uh, sometimes that concept gets extended even further, not just, okay, autism is a deficit, but even, oh, the neurodivergent person themselves is deficient, therefore. That they are less important, or that they don't have anything valuable to contribute.

So, like, my friend Ivanova Smith, uh, tells a story about how she failed out of a sheltered employment program in food service, because she got overwhelmed by the fast pace and she was melting down.  And so then people might hear that and think, boy, like that, that job was really the bottom rung. So if she can't do that, then she won't be able to do anything.  But you know what Ivanova does for work now?  Um, she is self advocate faculty lead in one of the University of Washington training programs. So I tell people that, you know, the compliance based teaching sets people up at most for compliance based jobs, but for careers like Ivanova and I have, the key skills are knowing what we have to offer our community, what we need in order to be able to offer that, and then how to navigate anything just getting in the way.

Vanessa

Thank you for that awesome story. Uh, so, The last question sort of section for you, uh, so I've heard that some people say that this approach doesn't allow adults to provide correction and feedback or build skills, uh, can you comment on that?  

Lucas

Oh yeah, building skills is still definitely important. Neurodiversity-affirming  support doesn't just mean that we're letting them do whatever they feel like all the time. Um, what you want to think about is, you know, When a child is making an unusual or a seemingly questionable choice, there are kind of two main things that may be happening there.

One is that it's actually, what they're doing is actually the best option for how their brain works. And then once you understand the whole picture there, then you're like, oh, that makes sense, you know, carry on.  So, for example, like when I'm in a meeting, a lot of times, I will also be on my iPad. And so somebody looking at me might assume that it's interfering with my learning or my participation. If there's somewhere, someone we're looking at the iPad would interfere with their learning.

But in reality, when I'm on the iPad, I'm doing a simple puzzle game that can easily be multitasked. And it keeps me from getting restless, because if I get restless, either I'm going to have to focus really hard on staying still, um, or I'm going to start daydreaming, and I can't really multitask either of those. I'm going to disappear into those.  You know, there's a lot of people with autism and or ADHD who say, like, I can either pretend to pay attention or I can actually pay attention. I can't do both.  

And so, when we assume that we know what's going on with a kid, when we don't consider the possibility that they may have a point, we can actually do some real damage to their self awareness. Like, for example, if a kid is saying, I need a break from my homework, and their dad is saying, oh, you don't need a break. You've only been working for ten minutes. Then you may have this kid going, oh, okay, um, I guess I don't actually understand what needing a break feels like.  

But, we are not saying that neurodivergent children are born with some kind of like perfect insight that can't be questioned. When you really have the full picture, behavior will always make sense. But, it might be the choice that they're making is the best option that they know how to do at that moment. And in reality, there may be lots of better options that either they just don't know about at all, or they can't figure out how to use for that particular situation.

But going back to the iPad example, there are kids where they think they can multitask the iPad and listening, but actually they can't.  Or it might depend on the game. Like, some games help them to focus, but other games actually make them more distracted. So they have to learn, okay, I can do these things on the iPad, it'll be great. I can do these things on the iPad, not so great.  

And so the key is working with them on building that awareness. Like, it can be entirely neurodiversity-affirming to say, hey, you know, I'm noticing that your choice here does not seem to be working out very well. Let's explore this and consider some other possibilities.

But you do need to stay open minded because, you know, you might notice they aren't remembering the lesson and you assume the problem is that they're on the iPad, but then you have to put the iPad away and actually you find that they struggle even more. You know, as the adult, you're trying to help them solve a puzzle here, not, not prove a point.

Vanessa

I love the idea of, uh, trying to help them solve a puzzle rather than proving a point. I think that's really powerful.  Um, awesome. And probably a question that a lot of us are wondering, uh, is, is SEL a neurodiversity approach or a neurodiversity-affirming approach?  

Lucas

Oh, that, yeah, that question can get really thorny.

I, I've seen more than one provider where they're advertising their services and they're basically saying, I'm confident that I know what's best for neurodivergent kids. So that makes my program neurodiversity-affirming by definition.  And, you know, there's not some kind of, like, Council of Neurodiversity that's deciding what does or doesn't count as neurodiversity-affirming.

Even within the neurodiversity community, different people are going to have different opinions on some of the details. But, you know, I'm not going to name names, but some of the high profile programs, I think, do basically teach what I would consider to be people pleasing. Like encouraging conformity, encouraging this unquestioning compliance, rather than teaching skills to mutually respectful conflict resolution.

And there's a pretty strong consensus that that conformity and that, uh,  compliance is the opposite of neurodiversity-affirming.  But on the other hand, um, some SEL programs teach exactly the sort of self reflection that I've been talking about.  And then, like, with social skills, uh, the social piece especially can get a bad rap for people where they feel like, oh, well, you're just teaching the kids, like, to say things they don't mean and to hide who they really are.

But  There's, you know, even that can be handled in a way that is neurodiversity-affirming. It can, social, social skills can have a place in that. Basically, you know, teaching them, you have to make eye contact so that people know that you're listening is not neurodiversity-affirming.  But the same issue from a neurodiversity-affirming lens might look like, okay, if you don't make eye contact, people may not realize that you're paying attention to them. And so if eye contact is uncomfortable for you, you can explain why it's difficult, or that it is difficult, and then find a different way to show them that you're listening.  

Vanessa

Amazing. Yeah, uh, that eye contact has  - definitely - I've tried. I've had to figure that out in the business world and networking and I, I love that approach. Um, all right, turning over to you, Duncan. Um, we've talked about, uh, what neurodiversity-affirming practices are. Um, and as an administrator who may have seen this firsthand, what are the costs of not using these neurodiversity-affirming approaches?

Duncan

Well, first of all, um, just wanted to say, you know, thank you, Lucas, for those powerful examples of neurodiversity-affirming approaches, really, really powerful sharing, and just really grateful to be in this space with you all today.  As you'll see from the next slide, not using neurodiversity-affirming approaches in schools can lead to really significant costs and negative consequences, both for neurodivergent students and the broader educational community.

Neurodivergent students in the US education system are far more likely to experience suspensions, interactions  with the police, and involvement in the criminal justice system.  A recent survey in the UK found that over 90 percent of school-avoidant kids were neurodivergent and over 80 percent were autistic.

At Social Cipher, we feel like it's really important to depict this issue in these terms to really create a sense of urgency around the issue of working with neurodiverse populations.  This is not like a nice-to-have approach for young people, it's imperative for their outcomes in life, and that's something we truly believe.

Vanessa

Most definitely. Um, and can you tell us the ways that the lack of neurodiversity-affirming approaches shows up in schools and might have impact?  

Duncan

Yeah, so there are a few ways, um, that you can see on this slide, and you may relate to these examples. I certainly can as a teacher, school leader, and systems leader.

The first is the impact on student identity. Without affirming approaches, neurodivergent students often feel misunderstood, marginalized, or stigmatized. And this leads to anxiety, decreased self-esteem, and a sense of failure. And this can result in disengagement from learning, absenteeism, and higher dropout rates. All the things that you saw on the previous slide.  

The second is really behavioral challenges. When schools fail to affirm neurodiversity, they may misinterpret or mishandle behaviors  that arise from a certain student's neurodivergence. And I have to own that, you know, I have done that myself as an educator.

This can lead to punitive measures like suspensions or expulsions, which not only harm the student, but also disrupt the learning environment for others.  

And the third is really the long term social costs. The lack of neurodiversity-affirming practices contributes to systemic inequities. It can perpetuate the cycles of exclusion and discrimination, making it harder for neurodivergent individuals to integrate into society as adults.  And this can lead to long term social and economic costs such as lack of higher education, underemployment, and contributing to the mental health crisis.  

So, while we feel like it's really important to articulate the costs of not using neurodiversity-affirming approaches, we really hope that this presentation can stamp strong neurodiversity-affirming practices and provide hope around the possibility of building a system that is affirming, um, and allow students and our society to reach its full potential.

So, let's take a second now to also establish  a vision of what schools can look like. Um, and establish that positive vision together.  So once schools are recognizing and valuing the unique ways that neurodivergent students think, learn, and behave, and are applying neurodiversity-affirming practices, there's a whole host of benefits. I want to hit on some of them in this slide.

When students feel understood and supported in their unique learning needs, they are more likely to engage academically and socially, and students can thrive by using their strengths.  By accommodating diverse learning styles and sensory needs, neurodiversity-affirming practices can reduce the frustration and the anxiety that often lead to challenge behaviors and then to discipline referrals.

Instead of being punished for behavior that reflects neurodivergence, students are provided with strategies and supports that help them manage their emotion and behaviors more effectively.  Affirming practices also help neurodivergent students develop a positive self-identity. When students see the value in their differences rather than feeling deficits, they build confidence and are more likely to exhibit positive attitudes and actions in the classroom as well.

And these practices also promote empathy and understanding amongst all students and staff, leading to stronger relationships and a more inclusive school culture. The sense of belonging and respect reduces conflicts and promotes cooperative social communication among students and adults.

Lastly, I just want to make a comment here around just centering the educators in the room  and really lifting up for myself and other educators in this work that when adults are able to build their toolkit and these affirming practices, they feel more equipped to support students.  This is going to lower stress, and it really builds hope that strong outcomes with students are possible.  And as we all know, adults set the weather.  When adults are doing better, students are doing better.  

Vanessa

Most definitely. And as a, I think for me as a former, uh, student who grew up with ADHD and autism, I, I've definitely seen from the student perspective, uh, sort of that, as well as the opposite. And yeah, very much agree.

Um, so now that we've established this positive vision of what schools can look like with neurodiversity-affirming practices, uh, how are these neurodiversity-affirming strategies different from traditional behaviorism? I'll have you start first, Duncan.  

Duncan

Yeah. Um, so to, to paint this picture here, traditional behaviorism, which I think we have to say is what you see in most schools around America, um, assumes that motivation comes primarily from rewarding constructive or good behavior and punishing destructive or bad behavior.

Uh, neurodiverse, neurodiversity-affirming services assume that destructive behavior actually comes from an unmet need and that constructed behavior and motivation emerge naturally when those needs are met.  Traditional behaviorism usually incentivizes children to follow a predefined solution to a problem. While neurodiversity-affirming services explore a range of possible solutions to find ones that naturally earn the child's cooperation.  

So we're not here to tell you, uh, what is or isn't effective for your school or kids, but we are here to talk about what's effective for a population of students.  In our experience, traditional behaviorism might get you short term results, but it's never going to shift the paradigm and might not have any impact at all.

To talk more about this, who's an amazing thought partner in this work, I'm just going to kick it over to Lucas, uh, to talk a little bit more about the contrast between traditional behaviorist approach and what Social Cipher is doing differently.  

Lucas

Yeah. So, um, our curriculum, if you get a free Social Cipher account, we have a free sample for you of our curriculum that is all about trying new things.

And so the traditional behavioral approach is for trying new things is to incentivize them. So, reward the kid for doing something that they aren't comfortable with. Take away the reward or impose some other punishment if they don't do what you want them to do. And then the Ava curriculum, on the other hand, assumes that kids have a good reason for being nervous about the new thing.

And that does not mean that they're always going to feel that same way. It doesn't mean that we're saying that the thing is actually dangerous or intolerable. But we want to focus on actually working through those feelings rather than just washing them down.  And so the curriculum really walks kids through developing those essential self-awareness skills.

So what are the situations where you're stressed and reluctant to try it? What coping strategies might help you be ready for that? Who can you turn to for help getting through it? Or for help finding an alternative if it's really out of reach for you right now?  And so when you hit that, no rewards and punishments are needed because growing and exploring is its own reward when it's at the right level of challenge.

Vanessa

Amazing. Thank you. Um, So we've talked a lot about the benefits of these neurodiversity-affirming strategies and the costs of not having them. Uh, you both spoke about many challenging behaviors and how that often comes out of unmet needs as root causes. Uh, what are some examples of common student behaviors and the root cause that our audience should be out on the lookout for, or might even be seeing already?

Lucas

Yeah, so here are some common behavior problems you might see, along with some possible reasons for them. So you might have a student where they're just constantly late and disorganized because the executive functioning skills are challenging for them. You might have somebody where they're behaving disruptively because the environment is causing them sensory pain.  You might see them procrastinating where it's an anxiety thing. They're intimidated by a big project. They don't know where to start.  You might often you will see kids where they become explosive when there's an unexpected change in the schedule that really kicks off their fight or flight. Um, you might have a kid where they're distracting other people with their noisy stimming, with some of that repetitive behavior, um, because they're trying to manage their own under-stimulation.

And you do want to keep in mind, um, these are possible reasons. It is always important to get information directly from the child and or from careful observation. Like, somebody who's behaving disruptively. They might be in sensory pain if the environment is overwhelming, but they might also just be in physical pain, such as a toothache.

They might be having anxiety about encountering a bully after class, or there could be any number of things going on.  If somebody is stimming loudly, they might be in distress and trying to manage their dysregulation. But they also might just enjoy it and not realize it's bothering, bothering other people. And if you say, once they realize that, they might be able to easily stop it.  Um, and so staying curious is just one of the absolute top keys to a good neurodiversity-affirming approach.  

Lucas

Definitely. Um, and this is fascinating and I'm sure everyone thinks so too. Uh, can you please tell me a little bit about, a little bit more about the root causes of these common behaviors?

Yes, so remember what I said, um, when a child's behavior is unusual or challenging, either that is actually the best thing that they could be doing at that time and you just don't realize it, or there are better options if the child isn't aware of them or is struggling to use them and needs support to use them.

So very often what you see is something about the environment is just kicking the child's nervous system into that fight or flight. And so they're doing things to try to help themselves feel safer.  When you feel like you're in danger, it is very hard to care about anything else besides how do I get safe.

And, so, like one time I worked with a kid where he was very well behaved in the morning, but then in the afternoons he would act up. And then one day, um, I wish I'd thought to ask this earlier, but I was pretty young and I was inexperienced, but eventually I thought to ask him, like, what is going on with this?

And it turned out, this poor kid, um, had sensory hypersensitivities,  which, like I said, you know, these can lead to incredible gifts, this responsiveness. But, this kid could see the fluorescent lights flickering. I didn't happen to get that sensitivity, so I wasn't even aware of it. And so this kid, he is antsy, he's distracted, he's getting easily upset about things that wouldn't have bothered him in the morning.

But I think, you know, pretty much all of us would probably be feeling that way if we were trying to learn under a strobe light, which is basically what was happening for him.  

And then other times what you see is, uh, kids are not doing what we want them to do. And so they're not being disruptive, it's not we need to stop doing something, they're passive. Um, they're disorganized a lot of times, that's a, a common issue. And so I was, they, may seem unmotivated. And so I was very much that kid, um, called an underachiever a lot. Like even in grad school, I remember I was digging around in my bag for a sheet that I just jammed in there and I pulled it out and it's all crumpled and like the class laughed.

And when, when you're living with that, like people are always trying to give you advice, like, oh, just use a planner, always put things in the same place. That's what I do. Um, or like a common one that people would say that was, I was especially hopeless that people would say, oh, just do a little bit at a time, so it doesn't build up and get overwhelming.

Um, so like, I would let the dishes pile up in my room for days, get this giant pile, and then eventually I'd take them all out at once. Um, I'm a parent coach, and that is a very common thing that I see parents complaining about, is the dishes piling up.  Um, but, you know, guess, so guess what eventually happened with that?

It eventually turned out that I had several undiagnosed and untreated conditions, multiple mental diagnoses, and multiple physical diagnoses.  And so, it became clearer and clearer, my habits were revolving around trying not to trigger those symptoms. But it was completely unconscious, because I didn't know that it was not normal to feel that way.

You know, I guess, I just thought, like, everybody feels sick, like, just walking from the bedroom to the kitchen, and I'm just being a baby about it, for some reason. Other people are, you know, powering through better.  And,  of course, because that was making me feel so sick, I did not feel like making that trip any more often than I actually had to. It actually made sense for me to be doing it all in one trip.  And so the more that my conditions got properly treated, the more those organizational skills became easy for me and actually enjoyable once those barriers were removed.  And I'm not saying, um, that that's the case with every kid who has organization difficulties. There's a lot of different reasons. Sometimes you just need to teach the skills and then, you know, it comes along or find a different strategy and they stick with it well. But, um, undiagnosed physical and mental conditions are actually very, very common for neurodivergent kids.  And so you want to think a little bit about what that's like.

Um, you know, you have all of these people telling you, oh, you just need to try harder. It's because you're not being consistent. It's because you're not practicing. If you keep practicing, it's going to get easier.  And so then at first, you go ahead and you practice. You're being a good sport about it. And it does not get easier.

And so you try even harder, and you feel even worse, and then at some point in there, listening to the adults starts to feel kind of pointless. You really start to question whether these adults know what they're talking about.  And so a difficult kid is usually a demoralized kid, in my experience.  And so a question that I ask people is, you know, thinking about this experience that I had, if the kid came back to you in a decade and said, hey, turns out, there was a medical reason that I really didn't want to do the thing. Like, are you going to be proud of how you handled that when they were kids?

Oof.

Vanessa 

That,  that makes definitely a statement and is super true.  Oh, man, the amount I just related to everything, uh, that you were saying about getting a planner or doing things a little bit at a time hit me to my core.

And I'm seeing in the chat for many people, it also did. Um, awesome. Thank you for those powerful stories. Um, turning over to you, Duncan, um, from an administrator perspective, how can educators and administrators assess or address behaviors like these?  

Duncan

Yeah, one thing I just wanted to say quickly that stood out to me from what Lucas just said is that a difficult kid is a demoralized kid.

And I think that that is something that, um,  that really sticks with me. So thank you for sharing that.  I'm actually going to start here with, uh, two stories that were really good learning experiences for me and places where I, I didn't initially get it right. Even though my, myself and the colleagues I was working with, I think had the right intentions, um, but they think they, they exemplify the process of learning and growing as an educator, which is really what this is about.

So as a principal, I had a student, um, with autism who did extremely well with the intentional structured environment that we built in the school that I led, but every time there was a change in schedule, um, particularly for a special Friday schedule, which most kids loved and was a really exciting time, uh, to be in school, he would just become extremely dysregulated, calling out, crawling under his desk, getting out of his seat constantly, and it took this happening two to three times over a series of Fridays and us reacting more punitively, um, before through conversation with him, we realized that he was just being severely impacted by the change in schedule.

And so we collaborated to establish the solution of always providing him with a preview of the changed schedule the day before and asked him for feedback. And it took so little time for us, but it made an immense difference for him and the overall school environment. So it's one of those things where we try to center on like, what can we do? And sometimes it is as simple as collaborating with a student and sharing something like that, that can make an immense, immense difference.  

The second example also comes from a time as a school leader, working with a student, um, with ADHD, who was chronically late to school. And we all know that chronic absenteeism is something that so many, um, people in schools are experiencing right now. But this story really hits it home for me and why it was particularly hard for a, for a certain student.  

So when the year started, um, we were meeting the student with ADHD's lateness with a very behavioralist carrot and sticks approach, um, which we did for most students. We were awarded them when they arrived on time and then provided the consequence of detention when students were late, this student included. But for him it made no lasting difference. And I would say that for any kid who is experiencing chronic absenteeism, this was not a solution that worked particularly well. But for him, we really saw that it didn't work. And it wasn't until we really looked at the root cause of his challenge, which was really his executive functioning challenges, his challenges getting organized in the morning and the fact that his mom who worked a very early shift, was not home to help him get organized in the morning.

Um, until we looked at those things, we didn't see progress. So we established a plan to give him a call in the morning. We mapped, um, and practiced his bus route. We gave him some additional time when he arrived at school. Once he arrived on time to get himself organized. And then set some really achievable goals for him that we could celebrate.

And it wasn't the perfect solution. We had to continue to iterate and stay curious, like Lucas said, but this level of individualization for a student that was at huge risk made a big difference.  So I learned through this experience, but I think there are some approaches that are just core that any educational leader can use that is trying to support these common behaviors.

Professional development that provides awareness on the strengths and challenges of neurodivergent students helps.  Focusing on strategies for classroom management that support environmental needs and communication helps.  The task of, especially at this time of the year, ensuring that everybody reads students IEPs and then meet with students and parents to talk about those IEPs and develop, uh, you know, proactive accommodations really makes a difference.

Um, and then overall promoting a school culture that's safe, supportive, and inclusive helps.  The reason I'm so excited about Social Cipher, though, with its curriculum and SEL resources and Ava is that it provides an incredible proactive tool for building an intentional proactive environment for neurodiverse students.

I just want to close this question by also, um, just sharing the sentiment that any initial transition to a new approach to common behavior  can be bumpy and there are factors that are just outside of our control as educators or feel like they're outside of our control. Um, and sometimes something you've been doing or feel like you get success with stops working  and you have to adjust and stay curious. Um, the work's not easy, uh, it's deeply introspective and difficult and it takes time, but it is well worth it for the development of educators and the outcomes you can achieve with students.  

Vanessa

So powerful. So fabulous. I wish I had had a Duncan and a Lucas in my academic journey, uh, cause wow, the difference it would have made.

Um, so, after, uh, all that, I, we've reached an area where we're just going to pause for a moment, reflect on everything we've learned, uh, I just flashed up a couple of resources, uh, that are kind of a peek at what you'll be able to sort of access after, uh, these slides are posted in the EdWeb community after the webinar, uh, to give you a little preview of what the rest of this webinar is going to look like, uh, for the rest of our time together, uh, I'm going to be doing another quick poll question. Uh, and then we're going to move on to our more free flowing panel portion And then we will do some audience Q& A so make sure to get those questions in.

All right, fabulous. Uh, so let's start with a poll on barriers. Um, so we'd like to really know, uh, before we move on to talk about barriers, uh, we'd like to know what barriers you're facing. Uh, what's the top barrier that comes to mind for your district, your school, or your classroom when implementing, uh, neurodiversity-affirming strategies? And I'll leave this for about a minute.

Access to resources and teacher buy in are flippin around, kind of neck and neck at some points.

Big classes, no aids, teacher mindset, yep, all  very understandable.

Time,  volatilization of SEL, yep,  time, definitely a big constraint.  

And of course, access to resources. Yep. This makes a lot of sense. Um, okay, I'm going to go ahead and close this poll. Thank you.  Fantastic. Um, so now we're going to actually start talking a little bit more about barriers and what we can do.

So before let me just flip over here. Um, so before we open things up for the audience Q & A here's our little free flowing panel portion. I'm going to ask Lucas and Duncan a couple shorter questions, starting with Lucas.  

So Lucas, after seeing those answers in the poll, we all know that there's a variety of barriers, uh, that there could be to implementing these neurodiversity-affirming strategies.

Uh, what are the barriers that you've seen?  

Lucas

I am not surprised that the access to resources is way up at the top there. Um, I know that that's one of the hardest things for teachers. I am so sympathetic to the schools being underfunded and understaffed.  

I once worked in an afterschool program, um, where the owner was scheduling and staffing, like he was realistic about the fact that there are going to be kids with disabilities in the classes and that they're going to need extra support. And he was realistic about the amount of extra support that they were going to need, and so he scheduled and staffed us with the assumption that these extra resources would be needed. And, um, he built that leeway in and it was amazing, you know, you, I feel like you could really see it on our stress levels definitely, and then also on the impact for the kids, both the, um,  the kids who needed the extra support and the other kids where they're not feeling like they're getting squeezed out by this kid needing extra support. There's enough there. Um, enough for everybody.  

And  I know that that is a luxury. That was just a really valuable experience to see how it can be done right. Um, you know, it, but so often it takes time to save time and a lot of times you just get caught in this cycle where you are putting out fires, um, so often that you don't have any time left to focus on prevention.

Vanessa

Definitely. And so I think especially on that last point, so let's say I am a teacher or a systems leader and I don't have the resources in place to really implement neurodiversity-affirming strategies at scale. What can I do?  

Lucas

I think there's,  I think there may be more ability to implement them than people realize.

When I'm trying to quickly help somebody find some changes they can make that are effective and realistic, a lot of times I'm looking for things that they can stop doing. So especially, um, you know, choosing your battles. Like, I tell parents, you have my permission to stop doing things that you know are doing more harm than good. Even if people are judging you, even if people are, you know, saying that you're bad parents or whatever.  You have my permission. You do not have to take away their privileges, or even say anything to the kid necessarily, like if they're saying a cuss word. You can let them have the tablet at the dinner table, if taking it away means they're still disregulated at a bedtime and tired the next day, and it's just making things worse and worse. They're not gaining anything by you taking the tablet away at that point.  

And, so, this doesn't mean that we want them to keep doing those things forever. It doesn't mean we want them to keep cussing. It doesn't mean we want them to keep doing the tablet at the dinner table. It means, we are freeing up energy to address either higher priority things, more pressing things, which there probably are for kids in that position.

Um, or,  uh, you know, addressing that issue in a way that is going to get results instead of getting power struggles. And so you might have gotten the message that you have to stick really strictly to these certain, you know, rules and limits, be consistent and so on. But one of the questions that is going to get you the most bang for your buck by far is, do I actually need to stick to this? Like, what will happen if I don't?  And sometimes you'll find, oh, actually, there is a good reason that the rule needs to stay. But even if you do find that, just doing the reflection will sometimes give you ideas for a different way to address it and get that resolved. And then often the answer to that question is, if I let this go, I will have time to spend on higher priority issues.

Vanessa

Okay, thank you for that answer. Um,  another question for you, Lucas. Uh, so we talked about proactive supports, and you both touched on these quite a bit for neurodivergent students. Uh, so let's say as a systems leader, I put all these proactive, uh, supports in place for my district. Uh, does that mean that challenging behaviors won't happen anymore?

Please say yes!

Lucas

So that  would certainly be nice. Um, occasionally it does. Sometimes you put the proactive supports in place and suddenly, um, either all of the kids needs are met or they still have some unmet needs, but their stress level is lowered enough that then they can handle it or they can get those needs met more constructively,  um, or even just have the patience to deal with, okay, this, you know, I'm just going to get met right now.

But there are so many things that are outside of the school's control. Like sometimes it's the circumstances. Like one kid needs to be quiet, and then one kid needs to be loud, and you don't have the time or the resources to problem solve. Or two kids both really need your support right this instant.  Or there may even be internal things going on that are just completely out of the teacher's hands.

So like I saw a school just create this absolutely beautiful safe environment. Just like everything I could ever ask for. But this poor kid was still lashing out physically because they were having flashbacks. They thought that the danger was still with them. They didn't realize that basically they were trying to fight the memory.

And so you're still going to need reactive strategies to de-escalate these kinds of situations, um, and then to help them process the things once they're thoroughly de-escalated. And a quick point, do not try to combine those two,  um, either they already know the behavior is a problem or they're going to go on the defensive if you try to call it out in the heat of the moment, or both, like they know it's a problem but they're not going to admit it if you and so you want to save that processing for when they're thinking clearly and able to really have a conversation.  Um,  and so our colleague, uh, Deiera has made just this wonderful handout for you with both lots of different situations and proactive and reactive strategies for the various ones, which you're going to be receiving after the presentation.

So a lot, a lot more for you to delve into once we wrap it up.  

Vanessa

Yes, thank you. Lucas. Most definitely. Yeah, make sure to check your emails after this presentation, because you're going to get this great handout that has both of those strategies, which, as we've seen, are both needed to make sure we're really properly supporting, uh, neurodivergent students.

Um, all right. And lastly, for this panel part, uh, Duncan, you're one of the newest members of the Social Cipher team. Uh, what made you want to work with Social Cipher? Why was it so compelling for you?  

Duncan

Yeah, thanks for that question, uh, Vanessa.  I would say there's a few things, um, that stand out to me. Um, the first is the people and the commitment to, um, the issues, right, that we're talking about here.

These are the kind of people you want to work with in education, um, who are bringing personal experience and passion and research, um, and a real belief in what can be done differently, uh, to the table, um, and sharing that openly. And I think not only doing that through, um, what is an amazing game and curriculum, but also in public spaces like this, which I think, you know, matters a tremendous amount that we're talking about this, uh, with one another.

The second is, is, is learning the opportunity to continue to learn and to grow. Um, as educators, we never stop growing. Um, we're always going to meet a different student who's a little bit different than the one we worked with before and we might be able to iterate, um, and approach it.

But every context and every student and every school and every community is different. Um, and this is an organization that values that. And so, um, that opportunity to learn and stay curious means is a tremendous privilege, really.

Um, and the last is impact. Um, I hope that people here will check out the product. Um,  because I think it's really amazing. It's a really compelling use of technology that I think young people can relate to and connect with, um, that is also engaging with them on a deeply personal and impactful level.  There is a really, really great SEL curriculum that is targeted towards a population of students and supporting them in ways that I think traditional SEL programs do not.

Um, and I think it could have a really game changing impact on young people in schools and the educators that support them.  

Vanessa

Thank you so much for saying all that, Duncan, and we are, that's huge, but already know we're very honored to have you on this team, uh, and bringing even more knowledge, uh, to our learning company.

Um, and, uh, as a learning organization, uh, and, uh, kind of to build on that, uh, if you want to check out a little bit more about, uh, So what has attracted Duncan so much to our company, um, and you want to try the product for yourself, uh, you can actually check us out, uh, as well as our free SEL resource library, uh which is pretty vast, has a really good idea of kind of the things we do, and, uh, a couple free activities and lessons, uh, you can do that or try our game at  socialcipher.com.

And, uh, you  can also book a demo to talk more with me, uh, at that QR code here. Um, great!  And, uh, as you might predict, we have one more poll. That is right. We have almost made it with all the polls. Uh, so this is a really important question for us, uh, because as Duncan mentioned, we are a learning organization and we're committed to bringing useful trainings and products to people like you.

Um, so after learning all this information on neurodiversity, what would you want to be able to, you know, train your team on and bring back to your team. Uh, what training topics on this subject would be most useful to your staff?  

Okay. Lots at a classroom level.  Very interesting.  And an intro. Yeah. Intros are definitely needed too.

Fabulous. Okay.  

I think I will close that poll. Perfect.  Awesome. Well, now I get to open the audience Q& A so we can get started here.  Let's see here. Um, okay. So we have about 10 minutes for Q& A here. So I will start  with, um,  let's talk about, uh, where can districts start with implementing, uh, these approaches?

Are there any, like, easy little, uh, just like, starting points? Maybe that's a good question for Duncan.  

Duncan

Yeah, I can certainly share, and then I, I think that, um,  you know, I would love to hear what Lucas would add on to this, but, you know, I think the first is, is what we're doing today, right? I, I think, like, you have to, you have to lift up this issue, um, and talk about, like, that these students are, are in every school in every district, uh, across America, right?

And, um, They are experiencing a reality in schools that sometimes is not shared by the people that are leading schools. Um, and there is a, uh, a pressure that I think, um, exists in schools that is not always identity first. It is around, um, what we are doing to push achievement at the fastest level we can for students, um, without an acknowledgement of this.

So I would just say, like, the first thing is raising awareness. What can a district do? Put this information in front of those who work in central offices, right? Like do orientations to make sure that people who are leading are aware and are understanding this. Um,, putting it in front of educators and generating that awareness as well, um, is deeply important in engaging in the conversation.  

Understanding what the data says around how students are experiencing school and, and we'll be shared some of those statistics and costs today, but what are the stories behind that and how do you tell them?

And then I would say additionally, like Social Cipher is one answer and there are other products out there that, um, are going to equip educators with skills that you're not necessarily trained in that you're bringing to the space. And how can you, you know, build that as part of the package of what's so important for people to build in terms of their awareness and understanding so that they can bring stronger curriculum to students.

So those are some things I would highlight.

Vanessa

Awesome.  Thank you. Um, and then I have an interesting one here. Uh,  let's see. So how, uh,  another question. How do we recognize the children who are  neurodivergent, especially as, uh, when they are in middle to high school? Okay.  

Duncan

My sense is, Lucas, my read on that question is that if a student is not identified, right,  um, with autism or ADHD, they're not identified as neurodivergent, um, potentially, what are we looking for? What are the signs if they're older?  And what would we show up to stay curious to ask those questions and make sure the needs of students are better met?  

Lucas

Yeah, um, there's kind of a lot of different questions you can take. The different directions you can take that from just a very practical knowledge perspective, we actually, um, is that we have it on our blog, our post about like recognizing the, the uh, just the kid who's flying under the radar, the under, underdiagnosed kid.  Um,  some of it is that we don't necessarily need to be pinning down those labels. Um, you know, if the kid is struggling, there's a decent chance that they're neurodivergent - that's a very common reason to be struggling. But we don't have to decide, like, are they neurodivergent or not, to begin approaching them from this assumption of, oh, they have unmet needs. And, therefore, um,  And that's why they're having these difficulties. We can, if the kid is struggling, we can just assume that the kid has unmet needs. And those may be related to neurodivergence, and diagnosis, and services are going to help them. Or it may be related to other things and different services are going to be  helpful to them.  

Vanessa

Great. Um, and we were just told that we can add, uh, you know, we can go on for a couple more minutes beyond the end of the webinar because we've gotten so many awesome questions.

Um, so, oh, interesting question. Can Social Cipher be added into an IEP as a requirement?  

Duncan

Yeah, I, I don't, I don't actually have the answer to that, right? Like, can, can the specific program be added into an IEP? What I think can be added into an IEP from all of my experience with that is that we are trying to address a specific skill with a student and close the gap there and that we are naming, um, exactly the skills we're trying to target and potentially suggesting programs like this. But I would lift up and say, you know, to this group, if I had a student with an IEP and they are working on a communication challenge, um, and, uh, they are working to address that within their IEP, that Social Cipher is an amazing solution to that because it could be used, um, with the student, uh, to address that directly, um, in conjunction with their teacher or their counselor, and then there are really ways through a program like Social Cipher to assess student progress and growth towards an IEP goal. So it's an incredibly powerful way for it to be used.

Lucas

And another place that I could see it being added in is a lot of times, you know, when kids are dysregulated, there'll be something built in, you know, they go to the resource room or, you know, the kid where they, when they start school, they need some help to transition into being at school and so they get to do something that they enjoy and it's calming for them at the beginning. And so I could see Ava being a very valuable thing there for helping them.  Helping them to regulate and also, um, you know, we've talked a little bit about like what if this was used as kind of a Lunch Bunch type thing to structure that so I think there's in addition to building it into like teaching the skills there's also a number of other ways that it could be very relevant. You wouldn't necessarily name name Ava by name but saying, you know that they have a you know a calming activity or something and then Ava would often be a good one.

Vanessa

Right.  Um, and then one more. What advice can you give teachers that are dealing with staffing shortages, uh, with special education staffing?  

Duncan

Yeah. I mean, this is such a big question, right? Like, uh, and I know that many schools are experiencing staffing shortages. I think the best, the best advice I would give, um,  Is to use strong research based products in classrooms, right? I think that that that makes a difference. Um, when you have shortages, um, when someone might be covering a class who doesn't necessarily have the background or the experience with a population of students, but have a deep care for young people and want to make a difference, the best thing to equip them with is strong curriculum and then strong training to be able to execute that.

And so if I was someone who was walking into a classroom who was covering for a special education classroom or had some neurodivergent students in my room and I did not necessarily have that push in special education support or that student getting all of their set services,  I would want a product like this to use it exactly like Lucas said to be able to structure their time to be able to use some of the SEL resources and to build those supplements out. So that is the suggestion I would have is to have conversations with fellow teachers, with administrators to say, in the absence of more people, how are we using the best materials? How are we structuring student time in the most impactful way to make sure that we're reaching students?  

Lucas

And that's a, that's a great point.

I think, um, you know, I'm thinking about the curriculum and we have really tried to set it up so that it is flexible enough so that experienced teachers can tailor it to what their class needs, but also, you know, detailed and structured enough that somebody who has no experience with these things can walk through it and have a pretty good experience.  Um, so that's a, that's, that's a fantastic point, especially when we got people filling in who don't have the background. And I think the, the big thing that I would add is more for people's own kind of,  uh, mental health, I guess. Um,  I talked in one of our, one of our previous videos about just really keeping in mind, like, when you're dealing with the kid and you're very stressed out by them, like, keeping in mind like this kid does not want to make your life difficult. They are not trying  They probably do not want to be in an underfunded school any more than you want to be teaching in an underfunded school and so just really keeping in mind like if you and this kid kind of stuck together in this bad situation Not you guys against each other  

Vanessa

Awesome.  Fabulous. Well, that that's all the time for questions we have on this webinar.

Uh, thank you guys so much. And I think that, uh, we will be getting a question log of all of the questions that were asked today. Um, and we'll try to find a way to respond to those. So maybe stay tuned with your inbox so we can send those answers out.

A big thank you. Uh, thank you so much to Lucas and Duncan for your time, your expertise, and your incredible passion for supporting neurodivergent students, which is very evident.

Um, and thank you all for joining us. Uh, we sincerely hope that you learned something here today that helps you better support your students and that you keep learning and discussing neurodiversity in your communities to make a real change for the neurodivergent people of today and tomorrow.

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