Supporting Behavior and Communication IEP Goals

Transcript

Vanessa

 Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here. We are really excited to be here. Uh, and I'm really excited to share the expertise of our wonderful presenters about supporting behavior and communication IEP goals and doing it in practical and neurodiversity-affirming ways. So before we begin, I'll just quickly under, uh, just introduce myself as the moderator.

Um, so my name is Vanessa Castaneda Gill. Uh, I'm the CEO and co-founder of a company called Social Cipher, uh, which builds social-emotional learning curriculum, uh, video games and educator tools for neurodivergent youth ages 10 to 15. Uh, I founded this company, based on my own lived experience and challenges as uh, someone who's diagnosed with autism and ADHD when I was 14. And due to a lot of stereotypes, uh, around my conditions and a lack of support in school, I faced a lot of challenges with self-esteem and with mental health. Uh, and then years later after becoming a neuroscience researcher, I finally learned that I just needed different tools to learn and thrive and connect with others.

Uh, so I brought my lived experience and my professional experience together to start Social Cipher. And I do this work every day, really determined to empower neurodivergent students with the supports I wish I had had in my own academic journey.

Lastly, before we get to introductions, uh, all of us speaking on this webinar do work with Social Cipher, which helps middle and high schools support neurodivergent students, especially those who are autistic or have ADHD. Um, over 200 schools and therapy centers use our story-driven video games, our our inclusive SEL curriculum and our educator tools that really serve as a proactive and proven behavior solution for classrooms. We also have folks that use us as an SEL platform for universal support. So if you're looking for an engaging solution, you should definitely check us out at socialcipher.com.

All right now to introduce our brilliant experts. Um, so first of all we have Duncan Scherer. So Duncan, uh, is a K-12 education leader and our Superintendent In Residence at Social Cipher. Duncan has served as a special education teacher and really is all about making an impact on a larger scale. Uh, started and he also started a middle school academic program specifically for students with exceptional learning needs. Uh, and all of his emphasis in this program was really on advocacy, on explicit teaching, social-emotional skills, and identify identity affirmation, which we love. Um. It really has led him to school systems leadership. So his most recent rule was actually, uh, Chief Schools Officer at Democracy Prep Public Schools. Uh, and he oversaw school leadership in 18 schools across three states. And at Social Cipher, Duncan helps us by engaging with district administration to bring, uh, Social Cipher's products to neurodivergent youth throughout the country and actually beyond.

Um, and then we also have Dr. Lucas Harrington. Uh, so Dr. Lucas is a very accomplished clinical psychologist. He's a published author. Uh, one of his books is right behind me and he's an autism specialist. Uh, he has an academic background along with personal experience as an autistic person with ADHD. So it not only allows him to support, it really allows him to support autistic youth and their families from a place of super deep understanding. Um, his clinical areas of expertise include disruptive behavior, emotional regulation, and school avoidance. And Dr. Harrington leverages his expertise to enhance Social Cipher's, uh, social-emotional learning curriculum, and to ensure that our resources are engaging and effective and neurodiversity-affirming. Um, so the first thing we want to offer is really understanding neurodivergent communication and behavior. Uh, so before we get into the specifics at it, of it, let's start with the basics. Dr. Lucas, what is neurodiversity and what are neurodiversity-affirming practices?

Lucas

 Yeah, so to put it briefly, neurodiversity is the variety of ways that brains can exist and can, uh, respond and experience the world. Um, the world, the word neurodiversity itself is not necessarily making any commentary on the value. Um, it's just a fact that different people have brains that function differently. That's not really something that can be debated, I think. Um, but the neurodiversity movement on the other hand is, uh, philosophical and it's saying not just that neurodiversity exists, but that it's just as valuable as other kinds of diversity.

And then, um, you know, people ask, so what does neurodiversity-affirming mean exactly? How do I know if something is neurodiversity-affirming? And I always say like, it's not like there's some kind of council of neurodiversity that's officially deciding what is or isn't neurodiversity-affirming. And so you might find some agreement on the details of what does people think does and doesn't count as neurodiversity-affirming. Um, but the key idea is that traditional behavior approaches basically take the view that neurodivergent brains are functioning wrong and that they need to be corrected, they need to be trained to behave like neurotypical brains regardless of how that is working or feeling for them.

Um, and then in contrast, neurodiversity-affirming supports, uh, respect that different kinds of brain functioning, um, respect that that's equally valuable, and focus on figuring out what is going to make sense for each unique person. Instead of, uh, instead of focusing on just changing behavior, neurodiversity-affirming approaches, assume that challenging behavior comes from unmet needs, and that progress will happen naturally when those needs are met. Um, and I see that play out successfully over and over with the families that I'm working with. Parent coaching is my, my primary clinical thing. And, um, if someone does need more active coaching and guidance, if we really need to change something that is just absolutely not working out well, some behavior, neurodiversity-affirming approaches really emphasize working collaboratively with a person to figure out an alternative that's still respecting their needs and their autonomy.

Vanessa

 Awesome. Thanks, Lucas! And Duncan, I'm gonna turn it over to you. What are some, you know, common communication and behavior challenges, especially when it comes to neurodivergent youth?

Duncan

 Yeah, thanks Vanessa. So, when we think about conflict in schools, especially with neurodivergent students, it's important to pause and reframe that. Uh, what we're usually seeing isn't bad behavior or wrong communication, it's a mismatch- a difference in how students and adults process the world organize information or express themselves. So take sensory processing, for an example. One student might be overwhelmed by a sound of a pencil tapping, while a teacher or other students barely notice it. Or with executive functioning, a student may constantly be late, not because they don't care, but because they're organizing steps and transitions is harder for them than it is for others. These differences create friction if we only interpret them through one lens.

 Another example is literal versus abstract thinking. A teacher might say, let's get our thinking caps on, meaning it's time to focus. But a student who interprets language literally might be totally confused, wondering if they're supposed to physically put on a hat. Uh, the teacher thinks they're being engaging while the student feels lost or even anxious. Neither's wrong, they're just processing language differently.

 This is where the concept of the double empathy problem really matters. When two people have very different communication styles, both may struggle to understand each other. It's not that one person is wrong, it's that they're missing the other perspective.

 So really at the heart of this slide is really about shifting from blame to understanding. If we recognize that conflict comes from difference and from a lack of empathy or awareness of those differences, then we can respond with curiosity and compassion instead of escalating the situation.

 Uh, it's also really important to stay curious. Teachers need to be asking themselves, and this is something that Lucas often says, is this something where a child isn't recognizing a better option or that they're actually making the right choice based on the factors I don't understand yet. So it's not about right or wrong, it's about finding ways to bridge the gap so the student and the adult feel seen, respected, and understood.

 On this slide here, uh, we're looking at some of the common behaviors that show up in classrooms or in therapy spaces. And what's important here is not just the surface behavior, but the message underneath it. For example, when a student arrives late or seems disorganized, it can look like they don't care. But often it's really about executive functioning, the challenge of planning, sequencing steps, and managing transitions. It's not about lack of effort. It's a skills gap that needs support.

 Another one is acting out when a student is experiencing sensory discomfort. What looks like defiance might actually be the body's response to noise, lights, or textures that are painful or overwhelming. So I often think about this and it's been said to me, imagine trying to learn while sitting under a flickering fluorescent bulb. It's really hard to stay calm in a situation like that. So when students delay starting a big project, we may label that as procrastination. But for many, it's about being overwhelmed by a large, unclear task and not knowing where to begin. Avoidance here is really a form of anxiety.

 You might also see strong reactions when routines shift unexpectedly. While it can feel explosive, it often comes from a deep need for predictability. For some students, knowing what's coming next makes them feel safe.

 And finally there's noisy stimming- humming, tapping, repeating sounds. While it can distract others, for the student, it's self-regulation, it's helping them manage under-stimulation or helping them maintain focus.

 So the key message, every one of these behaviors is communication. When we shift from asking, how do I stop this? To what is this telling me? We move from judgment to understanding, and that's when real support begins.

I also wanna just add quickly that this is really important at this time of the year when you're beginning school and you're starting to see all of these things emerge. If you stop thinking, how am I gonna stop this? To going back to what Lucas said, let's stay curious and ask, what is this telling me? That's how you start to set yourself on a path for success with students.

Lucas

 And so that whole idea of addressing underlying needs, uh, versus using incentives to shape the surface behavior, that's one of the key points that really sets neurodiversity-affirming supports apart from the harmful supports that have been popular in the past. Um, and I'm not gonna go over all of the points on this list today.

 And so that whole idea of addressing underlying needs, uh, versus using incentives to shape the surface behavior, that's one of the key points that really sets neurodiversity-affirming supports apart from the harmful supports that have been popular in the past. Um, and I'm not gonna go over all of the points on this list today.

 And so you might, for example, see a goal around eye contact when that's really not appropriate for how that student's brain functions or even for that student's cultural background. A neurodiversity-affirming goal, um, would think about what purpose that you're intending the eye contact to serve. And then, for example, you can then focus on finding a different way for the student to indicate that they're paying attention.

Vanessa

 Awesome. And as a former neurodivergent student, I really appreciate that. I also just really love the, uh, echoing of the sentiment of like, there is not just it, it is true. There is not just one way to do a lot of these things. And I think a lot of neurodiversity-affirming approaches just require like creativity, which I think all of us also just need.

 So, um, fantastic. Okay, so now we're going to move into, uh, from sort of the theory and talking about, uh, sort of the basics here into those practical neurodiversity-affirming tools and approaches. Um, so first of all, uh, we know what to look out for here.

Dr. Lucas, can you start us off? How can we practically support behavior and communication goals for these students?

Lucas

 Yeah, so this here is a quote from Robin Gobel, um, regulated connected kids who feel safe and know what to do, behave well. Um, I talk about her work a lot. That's one of the big tools that I use with families.

 I stumbled across it and was just very impressed and ended up getting very involved with her organization. Um, you may have heard Ross Green famously saying Kids do well when they can. Um, and then Robin expanded this, uh, to the regulated connected kids who feel safe and know what to do, behave well. I tell parents like, this is your checklist.

 If they aren't behaving well one or probably more than one of these ingredients is not in place. I do want to note Robin, put the and know what to do in parentheses, because for neurotypical kids, knowing what to do is very rarely the issue. Usually they have been taught to death and they can tell you exactly what they did wrong and what they were supposed to do instead.

 But just as soon as the other things here start slipping out of place, then their ability to follow that knowledge falls apart. I think it is a little different with autistic kids, um, where a lot of their challenging behavior is re uh, related to the regulation and connection, felt safety. You know, maybe they're kind of are intending to fight because their alarm system is saying you need to do something to protect yourself.

 But just as soon as the other things here start slipping out of place, then their ability to follow that knowledge falls apart. I think it is a little different with autistic kids, um, where a lot of their challenging behavior is re uh, related to the regulation and connection, felt safety. You know, maybe they're kind of are intending to fight because their alarm system is saying you need to do something to protect yourself.

Vanessa

 Fantastic. Thank you. And then we'll turn to Duncan a little bit. Uh, tell us a little bit about forming strong behavior and communication IEP goals.

Duncan

 Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Vanessa. So here's a, an example of a strong behavior goal connected to a behavior we talked about earlier. Um, explosive reactions when the schedule changes, which is something I certainly experienced as both a  teacher and a principal.

 So strong IEP goals, I think as many people here know, usually share a few core tenants. They're specific, measurable, achievable, and tied to a meaningful skill. In this case, the student will use coping strategies like deep breathing, a visual schedule, or asking for help in four out of five opportunities across a period of three weeks.

 This is what I want to emphasize. The key here, um, isn't that writing the goal is enough. A student doesn't master a skill just because it's named in the IEP. Mastery takes work and that requires a step by step sequence. First, uh, awareness, and then learning strategies, then prompted practice, then more independence, and finally generalization for that student.

 And without that sequencing, students can't build real capacity. And we also have to remember that every student progresses at their own pace and the stability of the environment that they're in makes a huge difference.

 Lastly, there is a need to continuously invest and problem solve with the student throughout the process. This is how this becomes their process and not yours. It develops skill and motivation. We can move on to another example too here, which is a second example, centered on communication. So really building directly on the last slide. This communication goal uses the same step-by-step sequence, so we don't skip any learning.

 The behavior we're targeting is that moment when a student doesn't follow directions, not because they're oppositional, but because they didn't understand or don't yet have a reliable way to ask for help or time. The goal is clear and measurable. In four out of five opportunities over three consecutive weeks, the student uses their preferred mode to request clarification or extra time.

 That might be a CC augmentative alternative communication, which simply means tools or methods that support or replace speech, like picture cards, gestures or speech generation, uh, speech generating devices. It could also be a sentence starter or a spoken phrase. That's the what. The how mirrors slide 19.

 First, awareness. Teach the student, uh, to notice confusion. The freeze, the silence, the off-task drift. Those are the cues to ask.

Learn strategies. Explicitly model two or three simple requests. Can you repeat? Please show me. I need more time. Using visuals or even a a c buttons.

Three, prompted use. Plan low-stakes reps. Prompt immediately and reinforce the attempt. That's practice. That's low-stakes practice that's absolutely needed.

 Then independent use. Fade prompts. Build in 5 to 10 seconds of wait time to see if the student can independently do it, and then really be willing to accept any valid mode of their communication, not just speech as we said earlier.

 Last generalization. Can the skill carry across classes and partners including unplanned moments. Adequate repair step, to repeat, rephrase, or point to a visual. If the first attempt isn't understood. And again, as Lucas has pointed out in our conversations, you're constantly problem-solving. You're constantly working through this and revisiting and moving through these steps while they move sequentially, you have to move and be willing to move up and down to be able to continually problem-solve and give the chance for repeated practice.

 Okay. Lastly, I just wanna underscore the principle from slide 19. Strong IEP goals have clear tenants- specific, measurable, achievable, meaningful- but writing them isn't mastery. Mastery comes from teaching the skill in sequence with consistent partner moves and, and a stable environment. The paper sets the target, the process is what builds independence.

 So lastly, and I know you've been hearing a lot from me here, here's the big idea. Let me put a clear stamp on the last two slides. Strong IEP goals aren't mastered because we wrote a great sentence. They're mastered because we teach them in sequence. When teams get an IEP goal, we often skip the hardest part. Doing the thinking about all the little skills a student needs before they can do the final really complicated thing. Our job is to break down that big goal into micro-skills, then move in order, teach it and problem solve with the student to invest them, prompt it, fade supports and generalize across settings and people.

 That's what you saw with behavior, managing schedule changes, and with communication requesting clarification or time. Both goals were specific and measurable, like four out of five opportunities over a period of three weeks. But what made them achievable was the sequence, awareness, strategy, instruction, prompted practice independence, then generalization. No skip steps.

 There are two realities we've got to keep in mind. Students master skill at different rates. I said three weeks as I wrote it, I thought about that is not the same for every student. It is a time bound period that we are saying that could be appropriate for this student. And environmental stability matters.

 If routines are chaotic or expectations are shifting constantly. Progress for the student is going to stall. Partner moves, wait time, visual supports, accepting all communication modes aren't nice to haves, they're the conditions that make mastery possible.

 So the headline here is simple. Don't just name the goal, engineer the path. When we break down and teach it step by step, students don't just comply. They're going to build real, durable independence.

Lucas

 So as, as Duncan mentioned, um, making constructive decisions takes just all kinds of underlying skills that you might not even be aware that you're using if they come easily to you.

 Um, I was recently talking to a mom about how she could role model, uh, you know, how can you make a major setback into a minor detour by talking out loud, uh, about the decision to be flexible and change plans when needed, having her talk that out to show the kids her thought process. And, um, she was feeling like that just didn't come up for her that often.

 But the reality is like that kind of decision comes up constantly and she just didn't even notice because it was so automatic. So I used the example of, you know, Matt, that if you're going to the grocery store and you need to figure out an alternative because they're out of something that you needed for what you were planning to do for dinner, and someone with good flexibility where that comes easily, um, they might not even find that moment notable because they just pivoted to something they like just as much without even thinking.

 Somebody who struggles with that flexibility, um, they might give up on having dinner entirely or even melt down in the aisle if they don't have the skills to then come up with an alternative that feels okay to them. And so this visual here, uh, this list is the skills section from Ross Green's Assessment of Skills and Unsolved problems that Ross Green is one of my other big tools that I use with families.

 Um, and so being delayed in any of these skills, um, can make it very, very difficult to meet expectations for your age. So when I'm meeting with a family, we walk through how their kid does in each of these areas. Um, a kid might have difficulty with the skill in question all of the time, or they might have difficulty with it only when they're dysregulated, but we're seeing it come up a lot. And I have never actually had a kid where they were having difficulty in every single area on this list. But I would say usually almost all of the kids that I see are struggling with almost 90% of the skills on this list, at least some of the time. And so this list is really helping us appreciate how much of an uphill battle this kid is fighting just in their day-to-day life. Um, and how complex it actually is, as Duncan was saying, to actually build a good plan for helping them meet those behavior goals.

 When we were interviewing schools about what skills they wanted help with teaching the kids, um, so many people said they wanted help with task initiation. And I was explaining to the team that, of course everyone wants, uh, task initiation, but that's not really something we can target in isolation because basically initiation is less of a discreet skill that you can work on and more of an outcome that happens when you're succeeding with all of the other skills, whole bunch of other skills working together.

Duncan

 Great. Um, so this slide here is intentionally practical. So these are five moves, uh, or things that you can try tomorrow with really no new curriculum and tech, and wanted to really just like provide people with some things that feel like, hey, walking away from this, I can apply this right away.

 So the first one here is wait time. Um, really focusing on waiting five to 10 seconds after questions or directions, many students can respond, they just need processing time. Uh, so if you only try one thing tomorrow, uh, make it this and count silently, stay relaxed and let the responses come. I think this is really important, uh, for neurotypical students. It's really important for students who are neurodiverse. Everybody at this point in the year is just trying to do the right thing and make sure that they can figure it out. Giving them the time to process is the right thing.

 The second, except all modes. Really thinking about gestures, writing, AAC, or speech. If the goal is expression, any reliable path counts. A thumbs up, a quick note, tapping a button, um, say any way works. Right? You're really trying to reinforce the skill of expression and that needs to come in any mode.

 Third, make it visual. Put tiny step icons, a two line checklist or a quick exemplar. Visuals are going to lower the language load, and then they're going to make expectations stick. So post it in the room, point to it and that is gonna support students.

 Fourth, sentence starters, uh, and choice boards. Give students the first few words or a short menu so they're not stuck on how to say it. Put a strip on the desk. Can you repeat? I need more time. Please show me. Right? All of those options for them to be able to indicate and communicate.

 Fifth, consistent cues and icons for common requests. Use the same phrase and a small icon card across the class. Um, and really ideally across this teaching team for more time, help, repeat. Um, this consistency is going to reduce the cognitive load and make seeking help predictable.

 And if you want a two minute plan for tomorrow: add wait time for every question, post one visual checklist for a common task, and just print two cue cards for more time and help with simple icons.

Vanessa

 Awesome. Uh, yeah, that, that one about the processing time, man, if that had been used with me as a student, it would've really helped. I really appreciate that one. Um. All right, great, here's some more for you.

Duncan

 I'm gonna build on that. Thanks Vanessa. So, um, this one is purely practical as well. Um, five supports you can use tomorrow to lower stress and make, uh, expectations for obvious.

 So first, visual schedule. Um, so, uh, the day is legible at a glance, um, point to it before each block and be able to tell students what is coming throughout the day and create that predictability.

 Second, preview changes with a quick change card or countdown timer, like letting students know we're changing in two minutes, one minute, 30 seconds. Predictability calms the nervous system and it makes, uh, students more likely to be able to meet the expectation.

 Third, chunk the work and label it. Start here and done looks like this. When the first step and finish line are concrete, um, iteration goes up and avoidance can go down.

 Fourth, uh, movement and regulation options. Quiet fidgets, a 60 second movement job or movement time in the classroom, or headphone, uh, headphones when the room is noisy. These are not rewards. Please don't think of them that way. They're access tools and if students need them, they should be given them to support them in the room and provide that option.

 The fifth, and this is probably the most important of all, is adult moves. Keep a neutral tone. Offer micro choices for students. Start with step one or step two, choice empowers, and it allows you to meet students where they are. And use specific praise to name exactly what's working. Those things make an immense difference when adults are increasing their communication in that way.

 Another two-minute plan for tomorrow, host a mini visual schedule. Use a countdown before every transition and add a start here sticker to the next assignment. Those three alone can change the feel of a room if students are struggling. These toolkits are meant to be light, lift, and high impact. So pick two to start tomorrow and add a third next week, and you'll see smoother communication and steadier behavior without having to create a massive overhaul.

Vanessa

 Those are all so fabulous and practical, and I do really encourage y'all to, you know, pick a couple to start tomorrow. I think it will make a super high impact, uh, on your students in your classrooms. Um, in addition to that, later this week, uh, you're going to receive our IEP success toolkit, and that will have 95 different neurodiversity-affirming accommodations that kinda sound a little bit like these last ones, Duncan detailed, uh, that are all about supporting your students as well as a list of dos and don'ts for supporting behavior and communication goals. So be on the lookout from that, uh, later this week, that'll be in your inboxes.

This section is going to be all about collaborating with families and teams. So we've talked a lot about, uh, strategies for the classroom. We haven't touched a ton upon, you know, this other huge part of students' lives, which is their home and family life.

So how can, let's start with, uh, you know, Dr. Lucas, uh, how can educators help students maintain progression towards their behavior and communication IEP goals at home? And how should, you know, teachers and other professionals be communicating with families?

Lucas

 So when the word consistency comes up, um, I tend to grit my teeth a little bit because I've noticed that people who bring this up, they usually mean I want everyone else to be handling things the same way that I handle things.

 Um, you very rarely hear somebody saying, tell me what you are doing so that we can be consistent with that. Um, I will say actually one time, one of my most complex clients was starting a new school, um, so I was having a phone call with somebody on his special ed team and I didn't wanna step on any toes, and so I was treading to be very cautiously with them. Like, okay, you know, can you tell me about what approaches you'll be using with them? Finally, the person just cuts me off and they go, I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. I thought you were calling to tell us what works for this student. It was like, okay, yes. I have tons of information for you. And I was, it was just such a relief. Um, and I tell you, I, I will be thinking about that moment for the rest of my career. That was, uh, that was so impactful.

 Um, so like I said, first off, you know, the, the first issue with the consistency topic is usually people don't mean that. They usually mean, how do I make everybody else get on board with my vision?

 Um, and then two, a lot of times people are imposing consistency on the kids. That is not actually how the real world works at all. Um, we don't role model making exceptions for the kids, and then we call them rigid when they're not making exceptions for us. You know, your family and friends, they don't expect you to dress professionally when you're relaxing at home just for the sake of consistency.

 Um, and one family like, thinking about between parents, I was telling one family it is totally fine to teach the kid that one kid has you practice buckling yourself into your car seat. They have the time to do it. They have the, the patience for that kind of thing. That is not the other parent's strong suit. They have other strengths that is not one of them, um, or that the kid is practicing when there's plenty of time to do it, but that the parent is gonna do it when you're in a hurry. And so teaching them about the rationale behind the decisions rather than just enforcing arbitrary rules that are completely divorced from the actual purpose.

 So flexibility and consistency are two ends of a spectrum basically. And going too far in either direction tends to cause some problems for you. But you know, with all of that said, it is really great to have some continuity between school and home and other settings if you can. If the kid is learning a certain framework for thinking about things like the plan B from Cloud and Proactive solutions, or like our idea of recharging your fortitude, um, in quiet spaces like we use in Ava, or like looking at tools like the picture cards, the visual schedules that Duncan was talking about.

 You know, it is fantastic to have people helping the kid understand how it applies in as many different situations as possible, different perspectives on how to explore it, different, very different situations. That really supports generalization, that really supports just understanding it more deeply or just learning in the first place if you need a lot of practice.

 And so I would really love it if schools were sending resources to me as a therapist and a parent coach on how they're talking to the kids about emotions and executive functioning so that I can integrate it into how I'm having the parents, uh, talk to the kids about these things. These teams, we have all of these people with just great expertise and all different, these, uh, they all have their own niche like OTs and SLPs and so on.

 It is not possible for one person to figure  it all out themselves. You know, they're so deep. You could go in any area that one person could never cover that all. That's why the, the interdisciplinary approach is so great. Um, and so the IEP Success Toolkit, uh, that you're gonna be receiving has a family communication template to help you keep everybody in the loop on this.

 And so I would recommend, you know, continue as much as you can of what's already working at home. Learn a lot, explore that, and then show families the tools that you're using and encourage them to try them. But you also want to be open to problem solving or to even letting things go if they're really not feeling like what you're suggesting makes sense for their family. Like something that I say sometimes is like, if you think you've come up with this really brilliant idea, but the person you're trying to give it to is shooting it down, like you are not understanding the complete problem. There is something that is not right about your idea.

 And so this is a diagram, uh, that I use with families and I will explain to them it is really hard to make any progress on the higher levels of this pyramid if you don't have a strong foundation for everything underneath.

 So the first level is the safety things like just the pull out all the stops, nothing else matters. But when I say safety, I don't mean like, well, they have to brush their teeth because it's a health issue. That's further up. Safety, this bottom level is like if you don't address them, then the rest is irrelevant because there won't be a kid for the to do the rest of the things with.

 Occasionally it is a legal thing, like there won't be a parent child relationship. You know, occasionally you see a parent where they're at risk of losing custody, and so that's going to be your, your top priority. Just set everything else to the side.

 The very next thing above that is caregiver stability, because if that starts to slide, then everything else spirals with it. Um, and so I tell them, if you need to disappoint the kids, if you need to let bedtime or screen time or junk food slide, um, do what you need to handle whatever, do what you need to be in a place to handle whatever happens without your reaction making everything, uh, making things get worse.

 And so school is, you know, it is a very important priority. The education, the learning, and the socialization, everything. Very important. But you really never know what else the family might have to sacrifice to keep up with your expectations. Um, you know, I've worked with families trying to juggle school responsibilities with physical health crises, mental health crises, um, you know, a sibling who's in the ER constantly. Domestic violence. Neighborhood shootings. Um, with all of these things, schools can be a really amazing lifeline in helping parents keep their kids on track. In the midst of all this, be a source of stability for the kids, be a source of, um, you know, helping to continue guiding the kids when the parents' brains are very full up with other things. Um, schools can be an incredible lifeline resource for that.

 Schools can also make these situations so much harder than they need to be. Um, and, one important thing to keep in mind, neurodivergent kids, I would say they, I would actually say that they usually have neurodivergent parents, I think. So keep in mind that the parents may have some of the same unmet needs or the communication mismatches that we're discussing.

 Next level is, uh, the kids' sense of safety. And so I tell people, you know, too much stress just basically turns the brain to soup. And a brain in protection mode is basically only able to learn fear and survival skills. You can push all the teaching and the want, it's just bouncing off. Um, addressing sensory distress, building predictable routines, a lot of the things that Duncan's describing go in this category are really great for that. And then especially, especially building trusting relationships. You as an adult probably don't take advice from people that you don't trust. That's probably wise. It's probably not a super great idea to take advice from people that you don't trust. And there's no reason the kids would be different on that.

 Um, and then the next level is that you need to do your research. Some kids you can just throw things at the wall and see what sticks, and that's totally fine. Just do a lot of trial and error and it's great. But for most of the families that get to the point where they really need to see me, you know, the specialist, these families have very limited time and energy for trying new things. Another thing is off, usually, I would say most of the time they have more than one neurodivergent child, um, in addition to their own, so they're juggling a million things. Um, and so, you know, these families have very limited time and energy of parents, and then with the kids, a lot of them, every time you try something that turns out not to be right for them, that can actually set back the progress that you previously made that can be distracting for them. It can increase that stress level, lower the sense of safety, uh, damage the trust, and ultimately make it less likely that the next thing you try will succeed. Maybe, you know, something was going to be okay, but now you tried a bunch of things that weren't great 'cause you were just throwing things out. And now the kids in a place where things that previously would've worked, now they're too stressed for any of that to work. And so when I think of those kids, I um, did a lot of high school theater. I was in the scene shop and so I always, I call these kids the measure twice cut ones kids. Um, and so you, with these kids, you wanna try things where you've really gathered as much information as you possibly can and come up with a plan that is really tailored to the situation.

 Um, and then the next level is that you need to do your research. Some kids you can just throw things at the wall and see what sticks, and that's totally fine. Just do a lot of trial and error and it's great. But for most of the families that get to the point where they really need to see me, you know, the specialist, these families have very limited time and energy for trying new things. Another thing is off, usually, I would say most of the time they have more than one neurodivergent child, um, in addition to their own, so they're juggling a million things. Um, and so, you know, these families have very limited time and energy of parents, and then with the kids, a lot of them, every time you try something that turns out not to be right for them, that can actually set back the progress that you previously made that can be distracting for them. It can increase that stress level, lower the sense of safety, uh, damage the trust, and ultimately make it less likely that the next thing you try will succeed. Maybe, you know, something was going to be okay, but now you tried a bunch of things that weren't great 'cause you were just throwing things out. And now the kids in a place where things that previously would've worked, now they're too stressed for any of that to work. And so when I think of those kids, I um, did a lot of high school theater. I was in the scene shop and so I always, I call these kids the measure twice cut ones kids. Um, and so you, with these kids, you wanna try things where you've really gathered as much information as you possibly can and come up with a plan that is really tailored to the situation.

And then finally, at the very top of this pyramid, you have that guidance and correction, and there's definitely a place for it. And sometimes you won't be able to get anywhere without it. Like one of the cases that was really informative for me was a kid where we really had everything in place really solidly underneath. The kid was still struggling and we were able to go to him and say, okay, there is nothing more that we can do to make this feel better for you. Like this is about your anxiety and this coming from you internally. And that is something that we have to work on internally because nothing we do outside is gonna make that go away for you.

 Um, I will say, you know, that does happen and it can be really key. You would also be really shocked, I think, by how much the kids often figure out themselves once you get the other things in place. That kid was actually an outlier. Most of the kids that I see, you get the other things in place and they just start blossoming. They just start figuring out things out themselves. And um, you know, as I'm sure you know, as educators, these realizations that they've worked out are much more likely to stick than something that was just handed to them. Um, and so many resources just focus on that top part. I tell people that starting there is basically, uh, like repainting a house that's falling down.

 And so I have seen some really incredible things happen when the school is willing to help the families build this pyramid in a way that's realistic for their situation. Um, the best ally school that I ever saw, just mind-blowingly good school, um, they did not have a ton of resources. This was not a high income school. This was a public school in, uh, underfunded area. And I'm, you know, I don't think that it's just about like caring a lot. I know that, um, lots of teachers just put their, in schools, put their whole hearts into everything, and they're still struggling. I think that what this school was doing really well was just being really smart and careful about investing the, their limited time and energy on things that really built trust and collaboration, built up that pyramid and not letting, uh, you know, trying not to let any of it go to waste on power struggles.

 And so I also recommend thinking about this same pyramid, uh, when you're navigating things with families, especially the families who seem difficult. Um, first, first off that bottom level. You know, do what you need to do to like, still have a school that's legally running and, um, have everybody be alive and for you to be in a place to engage patiently and then focus on building that trust.

 You know, I sat in on an IEP meeting where mom was just constantly interrupting to question the decisions. And based on my experience with her, I am pretty sure that if they had, if the school had spent some time upfront putting her at ease, they would have immediately earned all of that time back from mom being ready to give them the benefit of the doubt when she wasn't sure about something.

 Um, and I actually sat down with mom and I told her later, I said, I actually think the school is right about what they're saying and that they're making some good calls about what to do with your kid, but they are definitely not doing a good job of explaining to you why what they're doing is right.

 Um, and then, uh, another nice thing I saw parents, uh, I actually saw it live. We were in the session and they received a call. And uh, the call was basically saying, we don't want you to feel like it's bad news. Every time you see our number, we don't want you to see the number and just get that, uh, be dreading it. And so we're just calling to tell you that your kid is having a great day today.

 And so A+ to that school, absolutely. And again, I think minutes of investment like that upfront are going to save them hours and hours of trouble down the line. Um, I've seen schools and parents really get locked in this cycle where the school is going, well, if we don't push the kid, then nobody will, and the parents are going, well, if we don't protect the kid, then nobody will, and they just get, you know, further and further apart in what they think needs to be done.

 But I've seen, um, if parents are able to really see, uh, schools are behaving in a way that really let the parents see them as allies and resources in making sure that the kids' needs are met, these parents just bend over backwards to make the agreements work. And, you know, even the next level, even if you have a good rapport, you then need to be really thoughtful about where to invest your energy with these things. You know, you got you, you have limited time, you have limited time with the families, you have limited time in general. And so think about it as you only have so many points to spend outside of the parent's comfort zone before you lose them. Or, uh, at least before you need to really focus for a while on recharging that trust. And so be very mindful, uh, about managing that balance.

 And then finally, that top level, of course, you're still building towards offering guidance. You know, lots of things that the parents don't, just like the parents know, lots of things that you don't. You're each coming at this with, uh, valuable information.

 You absolutely can gently challenge the parents. Um, I have hard discussions all the time with families about things that would probably go better if they handled them differently. And the key to that is that you don't wanna be somebody who is intimidating them into giving in and doing something that doesn't feel right or more often agreeing to do something that doesn't feel right and then just not doing it. Um, you want to be a partner and a resource in helping them explore new possibilities and figuring out something that is going.

Vanessa

 Okay. Amazing. Thank you for your answers, both of you, uh, sharing all of your brilliance. I know a lot about it, but I'm really glad that you all got to share it with so many people here today. Um, so for the last, you know, uh, nine, ten minutes or so, we are going to do a little bit of Q & A. Um, and I do already have a question queued up for y'all.

 Um, so the first question that was just really interesting to me, uh, from Marina was, uh, how are we supposed to work with children that we don't know?

I can start if that's helpful. I think that, uh, I think that working with, uh, working with students that you don't know is super difficult, especially when you don't have, uh, just really the time or the bandwidth to kind of get there.

 And especially at this time, at the beginning of the school year. Um, I think that, you know, a lot of the little moments and little things that Duncan and, uh, Dr. Lucas talked about today are, are gonna be really huge for that relationship building that don't take very much time, um, and that are just like little things to show that you care.

 I think that another big part of it is looking at data. So, for example, with our, uh, dashboard that we use for players, uh, teachers and admins are able to look at our dashboard and be able to see the decisions that students are making, uh, in our, in these social interactions, in our in-game stories. So you're able to see, you know, how students are doing in pre- and post- assessments in social-emotional learning, uh, the decisions they're making and how those social-emotional decisions grow over time. All of that, uh, we have sort of aggregated in a classroom report and an individual one. And so I think taking advantage of sort of tools like those that provide that data is really important as well.

Um, is there anything y'all want to add to that?

Duncan

 I, I'm, I'm assuming that this question comes from the angle of, um, you know, how, how do I support a kid or begin to help them make progress when I don't know all of their needs yet, or I don't know who they are. I tend to think it comes down to a lot of what Lucas and I are saying, which is these are just, if you universally do some of the things that we're talking about here, um, you are, uh, mentally staying curious. Um, you are trying to understand the idea that people have different ways of interpreting things. Uh, you are using strategies like wait time and predictability at the beginning of the year. If you are creating a safe environment in the room where students feel like they can access resources. If you do all of those things, I tend to think, like Lucas said, you set the conditions where you can get to know a student, where you can create that environment where you start to notice, hey, I've done these things that create basic accessibility and safety for all kids, and yet this student is still struggling. Now I, I need to try something else. Now, I need to stay curious about what other support they need.

 But I often find or see if, if you don't put the universal conditions in place for all students, then you won't have the chance to get to know them, because a lot of students will start showing issues and it becomes very difficult to identify the ones who truly need more support. So my lean on that always is do the things that are great for all kids. Then there will be some kids, very few who need more, and then you can start addressing what those things are.

Vanessa

 Great. Fantastic. And I have another interesting question.

So, what ways in your experiences or in experiences with, you know, the, the schools that we work with, uh, with Social Cipher, um, in what ways are we finding success with teachers that say, I don't have time for that. Or, if I do it one kid with one kid, I'll have to do it with all of them. Um, are there ways that, you know, success has been found against sort of those arguments?

Duncan

 Have you, did you have a response? Go ahead.

Lucas

 My, I mean, my first thought is that there are a lot of, um, logical things you can, uh, say about that. Like, um, I think in one of our podcasts, I think I talked about, uh, an exercise that somebody that a teacher did where, um, they pre, they told the first kid, they were demonstrating like the difference between every, everything being the same and people getting what they need.

 So they had told the first kid, um, you know, imagine that you're hurt. Show me. And the kid says, oh, my fingers hurt. And so the teacher says, okay, I'll put a bandaid on. And then she goes, the next kid says, okay, pretend you're hurt. So when the kid says, oh, I'm hurt on my head, and the teacher goes, okay, I'm putting a bandaid on your finger because that's fair, right? Everybody's gonna get bandaid. On their finger. And so there's the logical things, but I will also say that those kind of questions often aren't coming from a place of logic. They're coming from that same thing that we keep discussing of a brain in protection mode. And so I think, um, you know, that is, that sounds to me often like a teacher saying that they are overwhelmed and they need more support.

 And I think, Duncan, you can probably speak more towards like what can be done for those teachers.

Duncan

 Yeah, I mean, teachers have extraordinarily difficult jobs where there is rarely enough time in any given day, more than any profession to do everything. But when I've coached teachers in the past, what I'll often look at is when there is a sense of overwhelm or a sense of how am I gonna get everything done, or how could I give this to all kids? I tend to go back to, let's look at the baseline conditions of your room and whether you are setting a baseline that's successful for, for you, like the systems, the routines. The predictability is set for you and it's set for condition. Have we created conditions for like universal success in your room?

 And then we can start to look at the things that are the true agitators or the difficulty, or again, the kids who really do need something extra. But if you haven't, again, I just come back to this, if you haven't done that yet, or your school environment is not providing the conditions for that level of predictability or understanding, then you will find yourself playing whack-a-mole with all of your needs and the needs of kids.

 So it's oftentimes a systems issue. If you can address it from a systemic  perspective and begin to do, I'm gonna try these  three things this week, and we're gonna do that. And then we're gonna layer in these other couple of things. And then over time, wow, it seems like I'm feeling less overwhelmed. Kids are feeling less overwhelmed. Now we're really getting to the core of what we need to address. Um, and I think that that's it.

 I will make the point. Though, uh, to the question of if I give it to this kid, then I can't give it to every kid. Like, there, there are kids who, who need it in order to be successful. And if you know that, um, and you talk to someone like Lucas or someone who's had that student and they say. By giving the student this accommodation or this support in the room, it will enable their success. We cannot, for one second, think that we are going to deny that kid that thing because other kids in the room might also want it when they don't need it.

 Kids need to be taught about, uh, differentiated needs and that everybody, and, and issues of equity, and feel free to talk about that with them.

Vanessa

 Awesome. Thank you so much for your answers y'all. Uh, if you want to learn more about, you know, the work we do, um, and more about our games, our curriculum and dashboard, and how they can support your students and teachers, you can check out our free SEL resource library. It was just linked in the chat, and you can try our platform socialcipher.com. If you found the learnings here today helpful, you can scan the QR code here to chat more with our team about how we can support your students and teachers. We'd love, uh, to help your teachers build more inclusive classrooms through our PD. Help your students work towards achieving their IEP goals using our curriculum, dashboarding games.

 Um, and, overall, thank you all so much for attending. Um, thank you to Lucas and Duncan for your time, expertise and your incredible passion for supporting neurodivergent students. And we hope that you all as attendees, uh, have really been able to, uh, bring something meaningful away from our session today to better support your students.

 Thank you for the work that you all do, uh, and the care that you put into, into helping all students thrive. Thanks so much and have a great day y'all.

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